I asked some questions on FB "Welsh Chat - for Learners" and a couple of people made some very valid points.
Where do I want to end up - what do I consider 'fluency' to be? It is, of course, hard to get somewhere if you don't know where you are going.
So, it's time to begin to solidify my thinking about what I want to achieve, and over what timescale.
I read Benny Lewis' book "Fluent in Three Months" at the beginning of the year. He suggests that 'fluent' is functional in the language - you don't have to understand everything, you don't have to have all the words, or never make a mistake. His idea is probably around level A2 of the CEFR Language Levels (GCSE Higher level).
I never considered myself 'fluent' in French although I was able to chat comfortably about most subjects, I read French language novels, I spent a week in an OU Summer School speaking only French, I was able to translate between monolingual speakers using a degree of technical language (scuba diving for example), I even won arguments in French - with real French speakers. However, I wasn't able to understand absolutely everything said - I found watching films difficult, often because of the very colloquial nature of the language used. But, looking back on it, what else did I need French for? I could do everything that I needed to do - I was functionally fluent. I also got to A* GCSE Spanish - I could do everything I needed, chatting, ordering food, buying things in a pharmacy, etc. - once again, I was functionally fluent.
So, what do I want from Welsh? Well, that's a difficult one. I don't need to use Welsh in the same way as I have done in France and Spain. However, on reflection, in addition to being able to speak Welsh to native speakers, I think that I want to be able to understand Welsh TV without subtitles (which doesn't require every single word), and I want to be able to read some Welsh language novels - not just those written for learners. I've heard that Kate Jones is good, and that she wrote novels about life in Wales at the turn of the 20th C. My gran was born in Wales then, I'd like a window on life in Wales at that time.
And, there we have it. I hadn't thought about it before, but that's what I want, and it's a fairly tall order.
So where am I now? I've just completed the Duolingo course, which I've heard suggested is about level A2. I don't remember everything from the course, but I'm continuing to work through the exercises daily, and I'm backing up what I'm learning with reading. I'm continuing to work through books, and I've started SSIW - because I really need to work on spoken language. I've looked at the Mynediad examinations, and I don't think I'd have too much problem with them with a bit of preparation - so I'm probably somewhere between levels A1 and A2 - better at some aspects than others. But, to be able to do what I want, then I'm going to have to be at least level B2.
I ought to be able to get to a good level A2 by later this year - depending upon what other pressures I have on me. That means that it ought to be possible to get through B1 sometime next year, and to B2 by the end of 2019 - given that these correspond to AS level and A2 levels - each of which normally takes a year.
So, that's my target, reading Kate Jones by the beginning of 2020.
Tuesday 21 March 2017
The problems of different dialect and registers
Anyone learning Welsh has to contend with the differences of dialect and register. Yes, it's true for every language to some degree, but Welsh has no 'standard form' and there is no key accent or dialect to aim for, unlike English, French, Spanish, German, etc. I came up against this problem with my first attempts to learn Welsh - I had no idea that the grammar book that I had borrowed from the library was a very literary form of Welsh, and didn't reflect what people actually spoke. Then, in the late 1970s I had a book which taught 'Cymraeg Byw' - an attempt to produce a form of the language that was easier for learners. It smoothed out some of the variations, but of course, no native speakers actually spoke like that.
Nowadays some of the books are produced in Northern and Southern variations, although I understand that there are at least five distinct dialects of Welsh. The advice is to learn the Welsh of the area that you are living in - not much help for those who are not living in Wales - and nowhere near any of the classes in England, either. So, I'm faced with trying to decide which variation of the language I'm trying learn every time I come up with a difference - not ideal.
I've bought a number of grammar books to support my learning - grammars, lists of phrases and idioms, prepositions and verbs. I've bought conjugations of verbs in French, Spanish and German before now - and, because of the standardised version in each of these languages the form of them has been the standard language - as generally written, but which doesn't vary enormously from careful standard speech. The Welsh verb list that I have bought is useful, but is a literary form of the language. Does anyone produce a verb list of conjugations in a spoken form? Dunno - I continue my searches.
When learning languages in the past I've been able to buy books of exercises that reinforce different aspects of the grammar - a page of written exercises on the Imperfect, Future, Conditional, Subjunctive, etc - A4 size, with room to write your answers on the same page. These don't seem to exist in the same way in Welsh. I've got a couple of books of Welsh Exercises, but these are small, and don't give you the room to write it on a page - fair enough, but I have to maintain a book to write these things in, and it's not easy to go back to revise them.
Short term, I've begun compiling my own verb lists, using the grammar books that I have - putting them into DTP software so that it is easy to correct them, or move sections around. This is a helpful exercise, because it's reinforcing the conjugated forms, as well as reminding me of the relationships between the various tenses and aspects. I can also print off the notes for when I go boating.
Also, what about accent? Some of the courses that I've listened to in the past have gone for native speakers with different accents to give the listener an idea of how different accents sound - but that doesn't help me to develop a more authentic accent. Being a lone learner, how do I know that I'm not ending up with an accent that is the equivalent of a learner of English speaking with a mixture of Geordie, Cockney and Cornish accent? What if I end up with a Northern accent, but a Southern dialect and vocabulary? Now that I've worked my way through the Duolingo course, I've started listening to Say Something In Welsh - for some reason I've gone for the Southern version. I don't know why, I just had to make a choice. There are aspects of the Northern dialect that I don't feel so comfortable with, because of how I have learned Welsh in the past, but I'm now finding that there are aspects of the Southern dialect that don't sit well with me.
Nowadays some of the books are produced in Northern and Southern variations, although I understand that there are at least five distinct dialects of Welsh. The advice is to learn the Welsh of the area that you are living in - not much help for those who are not living in Wales - and nowhere near any of the classes in England, either. So, I'm faced with trying to decide which variation of the language I'm trying learn every time I come up with a difference - not ideal.
I've bought a number of grammar books to support my learning - grammars, lists of phrases and idioms, prepositions and verbs. I've bought conjugations of verbs in French, Spanish and German before now - and, because of the standardised version in each of these languages the form of them has been the standard language - as generally written, but which doesn't vary enormously from careful standard speech. The Welsh verb list that I have bought is useful, but is a literary form of the language. Does anyone produce a verb list of conjugations in a spoken form? Dunno - I continue my searches.
When learning languages in the past I've been able to buy books of exercises that reinforce different aspects of the grammar - a page of written exercises on the Imperfect, Future, Conditional, Subjunctive, etc - A4 size, with room to write your answers on the same page. These don't seem to exist in the same way in Welsh. I've got a couple of books of Welsh Exercises, but these are small, and don't give you the room to write it on a page - fair enough, but I have to maintain a book to write these things in, and it's not easy to go back to revise them.
Short term, I've begun compiling my own verb lists, using the grammar books that I have - putting them into DTP software so that it is easy to correct them, or move sections around. This is a helpful exercise, because it's reinforcing the conjugated forms, as well as reminding me of the relationships between the various tenses and aspects. I can also print off the notes for when I go boating.
Also, what about accent? Some of the courses that I've listened to in the past have gone for native speakers with different accents to give the listener an idea of how different accents sound - but that doesn't help me to develop a more authentic accent. Being a lone learner, how do I know that I'm not ending up with an accent that is the equivalent of a learner of English speaking with a mixture of Geordie, Cockney and Cornish accent? What if I end up with a Northern accent, but a Southern dialect and vocabulary? Now that I've worked my way through the Duolingo course, I've started listening to Say Something In Welsh - for some reason I've gone for the Southern version. I don't know why, I just had to make a choice. There are aspects of the Northern dialect that I don't feel so comfortable with, because of how I have learned Welsh in the past, but I'm now finding that there are aspects of the Southern dialect that don't sit well with me.
Sunday 12 March 2017
Nature Terms
I've always been fascinated by nature and the natural world, so it is only sensible to come up with a list of nature terms in Welsh.
Names of trees seem to be feminine.
Names of trees seem to be feminine.
Trees, shrubs and
flowers
Welsh Name
|
Plural
|
English Name
|
Gender
|
bedwen
|
bedw
|
birch
|
f
|
blaguryn
|
blagur
|
bud, shoot
|
m
|
blodau ysgaw
|
elderflower
|
||
blodeuo
|
to flower
|
||
briallen
|
briallu
|
primrose
|
f
|
brigyn
|
brigau
|
twig
|
m
|
cangen
|
canghennau
|
branch
|
f
|
celyn
|
celynen
|
holly
|
f
|
cenhinen bedr
|
daffodil
|
f
|
|
clychau'r gog
|
bluebells
|
pl
|
|
coeden
|
coed
|
tree
|
f
|
collen
|
cyll
|
hazel
|
f
|
dant y llew
|
dandelion
|
m
|
|
deilen
|
dail
|
leaf
|
f
|
derwen
|
derw
|
oak
|
f
|
draenen wen
|
hawthorn
|
||
eiddew, iorwg
|
ivy
|
m
|
|
eirin ysgaw
|
elderberry
|
||
eirlys
|
eirlysiau
|
snowdrop
|
f
|
eithin
|
gorse
|
pl
|
|
ffawydden
|
fawydd
|
beech
|
f
|
grug
|
heather
|
m
|
|
gwreiddyn
|
gwreiddiau
|
root
|
m
|
gwywo
|
to fade, wither
|
||
helygen
|
helyg
|
willow
|
f
|
lili
|
liliau
|
lily
|
f
|
llwyn
|
llwyni
|
bush, grove
|
m
|
llygad y dydd
|
llygaid y dydd
|
daisy
|
m
|
meillion
|
clover
|
pl
|
|
onnen
|
ynn
|
ash
|
f
|
pinwydden
|
pinwydd
|
pine
|
f
|
pren
|
prennau
|
trunk
|
m
|
rhedyn
|
ferns
|
pl
|
|
rhosyn
|
rhosynnau
|
rose
|
m
|
saffrwm
|
saffrymau
|
crocus
|
m
|
tyfu
|
to grow
|
||
ysgaw
|
ysgawen
|
elder
|
f
|
ywen
|
yew
|
f
|
And in the other direction, English to Welsh:
English Name | Welsh Name | Plural | Gender |
birch | bedwen | bedw | f |
bud, shoot | blaguryn | blagur | m |
elderflower | blodau ysgaw | ||
to flower | blodeuo | ||
primrose | briallen | briallu | f |
twig | brigyn | brigau | m |
branch | cangen | canghennau | f |
holly | celyn | celynen | f |
daffodil | cenhinen bedr | f | |
bluebells | clychau'r gog | pl | |
tree | coeden | coed | f |
hazel | collen | cyll | f |
dandelion | dant y llew | m | |
leaf | deilen | dail | f |
oak | derwen | derw | f |
hawthorn | draenen wen | ||
ivy | eiddew, iorwg | m | |
elderberry | eirin ysgaw | ||
snowdrop | eirlys | eirlysiau | f |
gorse | eithin | pl | |
beech | ffawydden | fawydd | f |
heather | grug | m | |
root | gwreiddyn | gwreiddiau | m |
to fade, wither | gwywo | ||
willow | helygen | helyg | f |
lily | lili | liliau | f |
bush, grove | llwyn | llwyni | m |
daisy | llygad y dydd | llygaid y dydd | m |
clover | meillion | pl | |
ash | onnen | ynn | f |
pine | pinwydden | pinwydd | f |
trunk | pren | prennau | m |
ferns | rhedyn | pl | |
rose | rhosyn | rhosynnau | m |
crocus | saffrwm | saffrymau | m |
to grow | tyfu | ||
elder | ysgaw | ysgawen | f |
yew | ywen | f |
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